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Talk:Earth-TRN011
I say we leave this as "Earth-20081205", but Categorize it as an unofficial universe. --20:19, January 23, 2011 (UTC) I disagree. You've got editors on this site openly stating the Database elected to make up their own numbers for undesignated realities in the hopes that they'd be made official. That's no better than Wikipedia editors making up fake names for characters hoping a writer will carelessly use them in a comic and thus "make them canon". Leaving up an unofficial number gives the impression the site supports those types of posters. Lokiofmidgaard 20:29, January 23, 2011 (UTC) :Huh....well in that case I change my vote to renaming it. I'm kinda suprised that Marvel hasn't assigned it a number yet. Movies usually get designations pretty fast...--Spencerz 21:28, January 23, 2011 (UTC) ::Quite a bit of a difference between throwing out a number and hoping it gets picked up and inventing a real name (though I've constantly fought against us making up reality numbers, except in certain extremely obscure cases, instances in which we've tagged those realities with an "unofficial reality number" category. Maybe not an explicit statement, but again...we're talking about numbers here). Having said all that, we're working on a new naming method for unnamed universes that would make it more clear they're not official (which would include a three letter designation before a number, FRN, that would be short for "fake reality number"). We do what we can to keep things referenced, but we can only do so much, and if people are going to create pages for real characters, we need to do what we can to be accommodating. Is it an ideal method? No. Ideal would involve having quicker access to official numbers, but since that's simply not possible, we're doing what we can with what we have. We're always up for new suggestions, though. If they're better, we'll incorporate them. If not, we'll at least discuss it. But when it's no idea or less-than-stellar idea...we go for less-than-stellar. A bad idea is better than no idea, after all. ::--GrnMarvl14 22:23, January 23, 2011 (UTC) Very little difference between a fake designator and a fake name, not when the avowed intent is "We'll ultimately know if we're an influential resource if people start using our numbers." and "if everyone starts using our numbers, they'll probably become canonical." Plus "we do deviate when it comes to reality numbers, with the explicit intention of getting our information into the handbooks" Lokiofmidgaard 22:44, January 23, 2011 (UTC) :Bit of a difference between "hope this gets used" and "we'll know we're influential if it's used." One is really the hope of an individual. The other seems like some sinister attempt at influence from all of the admins here...which is definitely not the case. And I'd love to see where some of your seeming quotes come from. As intent is everything. Big difference between me hoping something I say gets used and me saying something to SEE if it gets used. Unless hope is now immoral, of course. In which case, I missed one heck of a memo. :--GrnMarvl14 22:58, January 23, 2011 (UTC) ::Yes, big difference between the former and the latter. Sadly the latter is verbatim what was said by Squirreloid in a discussion in the forums with senior editors and site creator Jamie Hari. Nobody spoke up to disagree with it. The first two "seeming" (which means EXACT in this case) quotes are from http://forums.marveldatabase.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=694&start=45 and the last one is from http://marvel.wikia.com/Talk:Johann_Shmidt_(Earth-616) as part of a discussion you and Nathan (Peter Parker) both participated in. Intent is, as you say, everything, and that page has someone saying the numbers are being made up for the site to SEE if they get used in official publications. Lokiofmidgaard 23:11, January 23, 2011 (UTC) ::If I might chime in for a moment. I have created two reality numbers in the past because I needed a way to categorize the information I was adding. In both cases I added letters to the reality numbers; not because I wanted to make realities (where is my Infinity Gauntlet when I need it?) but because I wanted a consistent way for bots and editors to find those false reality numbers and correct them later. It has never been my intention to make my fake numbers become the official number. I made Earth-NJ2043 for the most recent Cable series, using "New Jersey, 2043 AD" as my reasoning. I made Earth-FRN001 for Shanna the She-Devil after our recent forum discussions "Fake Reality Number 001". In the case of Cable, I was adding what I thought was reasonable and in the case of Shanna, I just took the first new number. ::I clearly don't want my fake numbers to become official. I certainly don't want the designation of Earth-1 for that little six-issue mini series. My reasoning, and that of others, is that adding realities with letters helps us find them later and adding fake numbers helps us categorize things until the powers-that-be (not us) assign the real number. ::Artful Dodger 23:13, January 23, 2011 (UTC) :::To Loki: Not sure what your point is on the Red Skull page. Ed wasn't an admin then, and wasn't speaking for the site when he said we deviate reality numbers with the intention of getting them official. And my reply is in line with what I've been saying here. As for the forum reference, that was almost four years ago. You'll see me, again, saying we should stick with official numbering, a point I've been pushing ever since (and, again, something consistent with my statements here). Fact is that things have changed in four years. That was before the wonderful list of published reality numbers in the hardcover Handbooks, which answered a LOT of the questions we had about reality numbers. Fact is that I've always pushed for us to stick to official numbers, but pages get made anyway. I can't fight them all, and I can't delete them based solely on the reality number not being official. Instead, I can just push for us to default on official numbers, and try and find a temporary system to use until a reality gets numbered (heck, I'm STILL waiting on a reality number for Sloth of the Gatherers, which is why he's still at Sloth (Earth-Sloth). A page that's not only redundant but a bit of a mouthful). The reality number here is the result of one of our short-lived plans (something I was fairly against, if I recall, but didn't fight too hard against because it was an easy enough system to undo. Something we HAVE undone when we've had real numbers we can utilize). :::Like Artful said, most of us aren't out to get attention or get our reality numbers in official material...we just want to create a site that provides information. We work with what we have, which in some instances is precious little. Fact is that I spend more time than I care to admit trying to fend off plagiarism (and never QUITE being certain where the line is between semi-plagiarism (i.e., rewriting a Handbook entry) and coincidental writing (let's be honest, with some characters, there's only so much information, and only so many ways to write it). Along with constantly worrying where the line is between what information I can source from Handbooks becomes ME plagiarizing (surely a real name is fine and a history is bad)). Reality numbers just aren't a big concern, unless we get a new one confirmed. There is no official policy here, and there never has been, that we should get our information into official sources. What you see is, ultimately, placeholder information. Could it be better presented? Sure. And that's why we're always looking for new ways, and introducing new methods. But until we latch on to that one perfect method...it's always going to be a shuffling momentum. :::--GrnMarvl14 23:57, January 23, 2011 (UTC) :TO echo someone's post, we shouldn't just make up our own numbers. Perhaps in these situations we could use "Earth-TRN#####", with TRN standing for Temporary Reality Number. To make sure it's organized, maybe have someone (admin or trusted non-admin) keep tabs on them, maybe with a master list or something, to make sure nothing overlaps or whatnot. Naturally, we'd need that person to be active enough to keep up with the list, and it would be safe to say that if we used the list, no number could overlap (i.e if Video Game A starts with Earth-TRN00005, but is then assigned an official marvel number, Earth-TRN00005 would never be used again.) And Keep the active TRN numbers in a category all there own. Thoughts?--Spencerz 04:24, January 24, 2011 (UTC) ::I think you missed the part where we said we were going to start using FRN, fake reality number, on fake reality numbers. More info on the forums, if you're interested. ::--GrnMarvl14 16:18, January 24, 2011 (UTC) ::I see that now...for some reason when I read it I thought it was a propsal. So are we starting to use these now? Cause with the video games I've been adding to the site, a number of them haven't been given numbers at all. --Spencerz 21:28, January 24, 2011 (UTC) :::I think we're still finalizing things, but it wouldn't hurt to move in that direction, following Artful's lead. :::--GrnMarvl14 23:23, January 24, 2011 (UTC) ::::Alright, check it out over here. Hopefully this makes sense. If not, let me know :) ::::Artful Dodger 02:54, January 25, 2011 (UTC) Separate Universe Don't want to get involved with the...conversation up there, but what evidence is there that Punisher: War Zone is not a sequel to the 2004 film? LoveWaffle (talk) 00:28, February 9, 2013 (UTC) :It's explicitly stated to be a reboot of the 2004 version, which was a reboot of the 1989 version. --Spencerz (talk) 05:14, April 8, 2013 (UTC)